Interview with Jennifer Sibanda - II

CI: Can you describe how you got involved in Communication for Development to begin with and what continues to excite you about your work?

JS: I came into Communication for Development through the Federation of African Media Women. I am one of the founding members of the organisation and through the organisation, we decided to start a project at the grassroots level which was going to help empower rural communities. Our emphasis was on the development of women in rural areas and the development of women journalists. Most women journalists do not receive much training – many do not have any degree or certificate and we felt that journalism beinga male-dominated profession, needed women to prepare themselves so that they could take up the various positions within the media. So from the start the organisation adopted a 2-pronged approach: one – to support the professional woman journalist; two – to link our own development as media women, as women journalists, to the development of grassroots women - marginalised communities - but our emphasis was more on the woman, because we realised that the woman, especially in rural areas just did not have a voice. We started the project called Development Through Radio. It is a Radio Listening Club concept, but the emphasis of the project is that women are trained to produce their own radio programmes. So actually, what we are doing is training rural women to become radio producers. This is how I came into Communication for Development.

CI: In our last conversation with you, two years ago, we spoke a bit about the Federation of African Media Women and the Development Through Radio projects. Have there been new projects, new developments?

JS: I do not think that we had started working in West Africa, when I last spoke with you. The DTR project was then in Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi, Angola and South Africa. The project has since been replicated in Namibia, Nigeria, Ghana and Sierra Leone. And since then we have also opened 2 community radio stations in Malawi and Mozambique. In Malawi it is being run by our local partner, the Malawi Media Women's Association and in Mozambique it is the Mozambique Women in Social Communications (AMSC).

CI: Do you have plans for other stations?

JS: Actually, yes – we do have plans for other stations. We are also going to introduce the Development Through Radio concept within the community radio station in Mozambique before the end half of next year. We are planning to start community radio stations in other countries as well. For instance in Zimbabwe, we want to, but we cannot because the airwaves are not yet open for other players. This is very difficult for us as Zimbabwe was the first country we had wanted to operate a community radio station – that was in the early 1980s. So we are looking at probably having a station with our local partners in other African countries where there is an enabling legal and political environment. There is a great need for information in the communities in which FAMW is working. So I am hoping we can start with Sierra Leone as you are aware there was civil war for about ten years and people need community radio stations to enable them to tell their stories and to start the healing process. In Nigeria since the airwaves are open some of our partners have indicated that they would like to operate their own community radio stations.

CI: In terms of the Development Through Radio programme, is it proving to be sustainable from within?

JS: Yes, it is. We started in 1988 in Zimbabwe and the project is still running. And it does not have lots of overhead costs. As long as we have very strong agreements with the national broadcasters and other community radio stations it becomes easy for it to be sustainable. The only difficult situation is when you get to a situation where the radio station asks you to pay for airtime every time you broadcast. But with most of our partners, we receive free airtime. One partner bought equipment for the state and federal radio stations as a way of paying for the airtime. But in most countries we do not pay for airtime at all. We have an agreement where we form partnerships with the national or community broadcasters.

CI: And there have been some economic sustainability projects from within the DTR projects for the women involved. Is that correct?

JS: Yes. We realised that it would be very difficult to sustain the production of programmes because some women walk 10 kilometers to produce a radio programme. Imagine that. And we asked ourselves how many times can women do that, how long can one sustain that? We came up with the idea of starting income-generating projects that would strengthen the economic base for the project for instance, the project would be able to buy its own batteries, repair its own radios, and for women to have some extra income. Our hope was that women would be basically “married” to this project...sothat they themselves become the owners of the project. And by so doing, we are hoping that women will be rejuvenated will be committed, will be enthusiastic, that they will be eager to continue working on the project. And this is basically what's happening.

CI: And is this true for all of the regional DTR projects?

JS: Yes, women are involved in income-generating activities through the DTR projects in all of the countries in which we are working.

CI: From your perspective, have media trends moved or changed in the last two years in the areas in which you are working?

JS: Yes – they have changed a lot. Mainly in Anglophone Africa. In the past there was a strong community radio movement in Francophone Africa, and not in Anglophone Africa. But the movement in Anglophone Africa has really gained a lot of momentum...with so many community radio stations being opened in sub-Saharan Africa. Where we are working in Mozambique for instance there is a barrage of community radio stations, and lots of them have been opened in the last one to two years. So more and more countries are opening up their airwaves and more radio stations are being set up in a number of countries. South Africa seems to be the leader as they have the largest number of community radio stations I think in the whole of Africa. Zimbabwe sadly is one of the few countries that is allergic to community radio stations.

CI: And these are being coordinated by the communities themselves?

JS: Yes. In a number of cases. But of course, you do have some which come in as community radio stations when in essence they are commercial, private radio stations whose bottom line is profit – as opposed to the community radio station which looks at a development perspective and puts the communities at the center of the project.

CI: Here at the Roundtable there has been a lot of discussion about the “liberalisation of the media” particularly in Africa. People are speaking of “freedom” and an “opening up of the media”. Is that your perspective?

JS: Of course. Of course. Of course. I am one person who believes in pluralism and diversity of the media. We need airwaves to be liberalised, we need as many players as possible, so that the populations can benefit from a wide variety of media and it will be up to them to then choose what they want. They should have many choices in terms of information. They can process the information that they want to process and use it for whatever benefit. And they can decide to discuss or not to discuss. It should really be left to the populations to decide on whether “I want to read this paper...” or “I don't want to read this paper...” or “I want to listen to this radio station...” or I don't want to listen to this radio station...” - as opposed to governments trying to stifle the growth of media organisations in Africa. I think the print media has always been good in terms of pluralism. They have always had, at one point or another, quite a good number of private and independent newspapers coming up to strengthen the democracies that we have. But the broadcasting media, in some countries, for instance in Zimbabwe, seems to be very stagnant in that area and the preserve of governments. This sadly undermines the democracies that we so much want to strengthen. However, monopolies of the airwaves by governments is destined to fail in the medium to long term.

CI: And do you think that that is happening now?

JS: In some countries it is happening. There are countries where it is happening where there are lots of newspapers, radio stations – independent radio stations, community radio stations, so yes, in some countries it is happening. But in some countries, the pace is very slow. And also – the whole issue of issuing of license becomes very subjective because once the issuing of licenses and frequencies is controlled by government, government can take its time to decide whether to give you a license or not and if they do not want you and do not like you, they will not give you a license. So the whole process is very subjective in terms of who gets the license. The question is, are our governments really genuine in wanting to ensure that there is a free flow of information. I doubt so in a number of countries licenses are issued to people who will toe the line maintain the status quo. So those are some of the critical issues that you think about when you talk about pluralism. And in some countries you are told that in this geographical area, all of the licenses have been given away the all frequencies have been taken. And if you want a community radio station, you might have it in some area, somewhere, other than the one that you want. In politically volatile countries our governments do not want to share the airwaves with its population. They want to maintain the monopoly, a situation that is completely crazy. Actually in some countries you find that people are being “regimented” by being bombarded on a daily basis with information that will maintain the status quo.

CI: In your opinion, whose voice, or what voices, not presently given high profile and weight in development processes, in development discussions, need to be listened to more often?

JS: It depends on who your partner is. For instance, for me, working with grassroots communities, I need to listen to the grassroots communities - what the grassroots communities are saying. I need to listen to that. If it is a relationship of NGOs and donors, the donors need to listen to what the NGOs are saying. So it depends on what level we are talking. The stronger partner needs to listen to the weaker partner so that they get correct information. Because if you go into a community and you go with the attitude of “I know it all,” communities are very intelligent – they will know what you want and they will tell you what you want to hear, and not the reality of the situation. That is why it is always good to go into a community and basically becoming one of them. That is why I spend a good deal of my time in rural communities – they become very open, they tell you exactly what they think. It gives you an opportunity to just listen and hear what they are saying so that you are able to implement or help them implement in areas where they feel they want to contribute. They will tell you what project they want to be involved in and which projects they feel can easily address their own situation and conditions. They should be able to define their own development and development should not be parachuted to them from the top. That will be a recipe for disaster.

CI: In the context in which you work, do you feel that we are winning or losing?

JS: I think it is a long process. It is a very long process, because the challenges are changing by the day. For instance, now we are faced with the whole issue of HIV/AIDS and information related to HIV/AIDS – it is a big issue – and we are just grappling around with the issue ourselves and that in itself is a major challenge. So – the various needs in communities, people's aspirations, are changing by the day. It becomes very important for us to respond to the various needs, frustrations, things that make communities cry and laugh – to be able to respond to all of those, and to be able to feed the type of information that the communities want. So the challenges are becoming even greater and bigger by the day.

CI: And every day, a new challenge?

JS: Oh yes, every day new challenges. When you are working in rural communities...on a daily basis you are able to recognise the different challenges that manifest themselves within the different communities.

CI: If you were able to double your budget, what would you do?

JS: Oh – I wish you were actually doubling my budget! There is so much that we need to do! We would want to open community radio stations, we would want to expand our DTR projects. We would want more women at the grassroots level to be part and parcel of the processes that we are talking about – to be able to be fully involved in disseminating information that they want to disseminate - to be able to produce programmes that they want to produce. So that is one thing that I would want to do. And to have as many community radio stations as possible within the communities that we work. I wouldw ant to use theatre for development as a way of mobilising communities to start identifying their own issues within their own communities, using the traditional communications methods that they know best - theatre, drama, song, storytelling. We would want to have a production studio - a radio production studio - that would produce all of the programmes that I was talking about – the radio drama serials.

We would need our own facility. That is one of the areas that we are really vigorously fundraising for. Another is that we would want vehicles because most of our programmes are in rural areas...so we would want 4 by 4's which would enable people to have access to the areas where the project has been introduced or implemented. We want telecenters, we want computers, you know...it is a big list. And also, within the community radio station - women are already working in groups – this could also serve as a counseling center – with people who have been trained in counseling to counsel people infected and affected with HIV/AIDS. So – there are so many things that can be done within that community radio station in terms of addressing issues. As I have said before, sometimes you end up counseling people, but you are not trained in counseling. So if there could be more people at the local level who are trained in those very critical areas, who then respond and use the facility of the community radio station, that would really be ideal.

CI: Are there any new projects that you are just not able to do at this point?

JS: Yes. We would want to produce programmes, radio drama serials, that address the issue of HIV/AIDS, for instance, which can be circulated throughout our projects and partners. There are issues that are very similar – the issue of HIV/AIDS for instance - from one country to the other. The magnitude might be different, but the issues are the same. So we would like to package programmes and be able to disseminate them to the various radio stations we are working with, to the DTR projects themselves, so that women start engaging at all levels in terms of the issue of HIV/AIDS. And not just HIV/AIDS but, also the issue of gender-based violence, which is still one of the big issues. The radio serials would talk about an issue and address it in one episode. So we will start one issue after the other with a thread running through, which would link all of the programmes together. So you could have a 52-week radio drama serial or a 13–week radio drama serial. This would captivate the attention of communities. Another big thing that we want to do, which we have started doing with some of our partners, is the introduction of a virtual newsroom. Where women journalists go in to bombard the west with stories coming from Africa, written by Africans, and these stories would, among other issues, include stories on HIV/AIDS. The women journalists would also write stories from our rural audiences...so that we are able to upload our stories on the internet, and to download information and stories that can be fed into our programmes. This would create a strong linkage between these women journalists and the rural communities. And they would be able to exchangeinformation with each other. What is happening at the local level could be basically covered and sent out to the world, and at the same time be accessible to those communities.

CI: So those stories would then also be on your community radio stations?

JS: Yes – if we had money, of course we would want telecentres or communityaccess centres. It would be like a one-stop-shop. Where women - and notjust women, but communities as a whole, would be able to view a video, watchtelevision, listen to a radio, read newspapers and have a post office andother services at the same place. It does not have to be the traditionalpost office - a center that is able to offer postal services. People areable to come and buy stamps and they leave their letters there for posting.A public telephone, an internet - a cyber café, a community radio stationcould be added. All this can be done under one roof.

CI: The last time that we spoke with you there were some issues with theDTR projects actually networking themselves together to communicate betweenthe projects in the different countries. Have you found a way to solvethat?

JS: No – not country to country. They are connected within their owncountries and within the various NGOs.

CI: How are they doing that?

JS: Through the project - because they have timeslots which all of theclubs utilise. So the programme that comes out on air is a programme thatcovers this club – the other club and another club – all of this iscondensed into one programme. The women are able to listen to each othersconcerns as well as their own concerns. So within the countries, there isnetworking. If the local languages are different it also becomes verydifficult for people to access the information. For instance in a countrylike Nigeria, with many different local languages it would be very difficultfor people in one region to access the information from another region.

CI: Do any of the radio stations that you work with do any translations fortheir local communities?

JS: All of the programmes are done in local languages…

CI: I understood you to say that when some of the programmes come together,some of the languages are different…so…

JS: No no no. In Zimbabwe for instance, we have 2 main languages. And wehave 2 time slots. So one language has one time slot and the other has theother.

CI: Absolutely. So – is there one communication initiative which has mostdisappointed you?

JS: That is difficult. I am trying to think. I can't think of any at thispoint in time.

CI: Which communication initiative, other than your own, has most impressedyou, and why?

JS: Well, of course, I like your website and e-magazine The Drum Beat. I have seen it grow from the time Warren started - the “one-person band” - and the way it has since evolved. And I think it is exciting. A very good initiative. Theother initiative, of course, is Soul City. When you look at the dramaprogrammes that we want to produce, they are basically formatted in the sameway as Soul City. Of course I have to mention my own which is the most exciting initiative that is the Development Through Radio programme because it engages rural communities. And rural communities are producing programmes they want to produce. The project is basically completely owned by the rural communities and that is exciting. It is a very creative and innovative way of empowering communities. Because they are not just listening, they are producing, they are debating, they are prioritising issues, they are deliberating within the community to say what is what. And what other tool of communication could be so empowering to the majority of the people in developing countries? For them to sit down as a community and decide “no – this is not it,” “this is not what we want,” and then agreeing on what they want to do. This project never ceases to amaze me. It is very exciting. There are so many projects where we talk about community… community… community… but communities are divorced from what is actually happening. And this is one initiative that is grounded within thecommunities themselves. So for me, that in itself is very exciting. Givingcommunities the opportunities to talk – not dictating to communities, butcommunities telling you what they want and defining their own development.Development as they see it. The foundation of the project is in thecommunities. So when you come in, you are like a visitor coming into theprogramme. The knowledge, the information that comes out of this programmeis just amazing.

CI: Yes, it is. Thank you very much. We appreciate you sharing your viewswith us.